Compiled By John D'Aquila
tipitinas.com

I am on my way over to interview Michael Ray at his girlfriend's house wanting to kick myself. When setting up the interview I had forgotten to ask him to bring his trumpet. I arrive at the Grand Route St. John residence of "Starlyte" and when she answers the door I immediately recognize her from Eluard Burt & Company's Jazz & Poetry Performance Troupe.

She lets me in and the first thing I see is his distinctive red-leather trumpet case sitting on a chair. There is a piano in the front room, as well. I begin to relax. Before the interview is over, he will play them both.

Michael walks into the front room wearing a blue tank top, stone-washed blue jean shorts and sandals. I hardly recognize him without his flowing Cosmic Krewe regalia.

For those of you who do not know Michael Ray, he is a disciple of Sun Ra, one of the most influential avant-garde jazz musicians of the 20th Century. Although Sun Ra passed away in 1993, the Arkestra still survives and Michael is a staple there and Space is still the Place for Sun Ra and his disciples. He also played, and still tours, with Kool & The Gang, the popular disco/R&B band of the 1970s and 1980s, not to mention his own band, Michael Ray & Cosmic Krewe, a very popular group around New Orleans and various parts of the country.

But, his impressive 25-year resume also includes gigs and recordings with the rock-phenomenon Phish, not to mention Aquarium Rescue Unit, Medeski, Martin & Wood, Widespread Panic, Porno for Pyros, Col. Bruce Hampton, and Deep Banana Blackout. His early resume, before Sun Ra, includes the likes of Patty LaBelle, The Delfonics and The Stylistics.

But it was with Sun Ra's Arkestra that Michael Ray's considerable musical education began. And that is where we will begin.

Tips -- "In tomorrow's world, men will not need artificial instruments such as jets and space ships. In the world of tomorrow, the new man will 'think' the place he wants to go, then his mind will take him there." Does that statement ring any bells?

Michael Ray -- Yeah, that's Sun Ra, all the way.

Tips -- Sun Ra said that in 1956. He seemed to have a certain vision….

Michael Ray -- He use to always say, more than 20 years ago, that one day man will have machines powered by the sun. He was always like that. His finger was on the pulse of tomorrow. Even with the music, he used to say the people are the instrument. It took me years to figure out what he meant. It all depends on what the people want to do…what theme they want. It's like the cat down here [Frankie and Johnny's Furniture Store] "Let 'em have it." So, yeah, that rings true.

Tip's -- I know this interview is about you, but I want to ask several questions about Sun Ra, as it seems we will get to the bottom of Michael Ray by going through Sun Ra. Is that okay?

Michael Ray -- That's fine.

Tip's -- How would you characterize him and his beliefs? I know he heavily influenced you.

Michael Ray -- His thoughts were not of this planet. First of all, he was a jazz master. He was one of the first musicians to use the electronic keyboard… in fact, THE first. In fact, one of the first synthesizers that Moog made they gave to Sun Ra. He was also one of the first musicians to have an entire band playing African instruments. That had never been done with a big band before. The book [of music] itself was so vast. First we had the standard's book, then Fletcher Henderson's book, Count Basie's book, Duke Ellington's book, George Gershwin's book, Cole Porter's book, Irving Berlin's book, Jerome Kern's book… He really dedicated himself to the music. He used to say every note you play is a true gift to the Creator. So, you have to play each note like you love it, or like it is your last note.

He used to say you have to play with alacrity, because you can be replaced by a button. It's happening now. And you look at the history of the studio, when disco came in, it was created by techs or studio engineers. They had drum machines, and digital synthesizers. Now, everyone is trying to get back to that analog sound…something that is felt, something that is warm.

Tip's -- I heard some of his band members believed he had telepathic powers. Where you one of those who did, and, if so, what lead you to believe that?

Michael Ray -- There have been several instances. One of the main ones was this festival in France. It was a festival where they had oversold the place. There were like 2,000 people inside and like 10,000 outside. The people inside would not let anyone perform until the people outside could come in. So Sun Ra marched outside, broke down a barrier. The gendarmes that were out there just saluted him and after a while everybody came inside. The next day one of the paper's headlines read: "Sun Ra Conquers France."

Then things would happen, like, he would say "I just got a message from the Creator. We have to be ready to leave tomorrow." The next day you know, he would say "We have to be ready to leave for Italy in five minutes." [laughs]
We have had some traveling experiences. One time we rushed so much to get ready to leave we packed the trashcan. [laughs] Never a dull moment with Sun Ra.

Tip's -- Sun Ra once said: "Somewhere in the other side of nowhere is a place in space beyond time where the gods of mythology dwell. These gods dwell in their mythocracies as opposed to your theocracies, democracies, and monocracies. They dwell in a magic world. These gods can even offer you immortality." What did he mean by that?

Michael Ray -- Man does not truly have to die. He was a firm believer in that. He would say: "The history of the world: that might be his-story, but it is not my-story. My story is always the mystery of the history."

Tip's -- You joined Sun Ra's Arketstra in 1978. How did it happen?

Michael Ray -- I was playing in Philadelphia with a band called the Big Bone Band. There was a festival at Vernon Park in Germantown. I had never really heard or seen Sun Ra. When I saw all the musicians setting up, I saw they had all these suitcases filled with music. I introduced myself to the trumpet player. I said: "Man ya'll got a lot of music." He said: "Yeah, man, this is just the tip of the iceberg." Then he was talking about "Space is the Place," having two drummers, fire-eaters and chicks dancing. It was really out there. But it was great music.

The next day I saw him on the trolley and he invited me to come to rehearsal, they were going to be playing in Egypt soon. I said, well, I got to play with the Delfonics and the Stylistics… So they went to Egypt.

Tip's -- And you missed the gig he did in front of the pyramids?

Michael Ray -- [laughs] Yeah, I still kick myself over that. I saw him a few weeks after they came back and he invited me to rehearsal again. So I went over. I went in the house and there is Egyptian art all over the place, there are keyboards everywhere, there are tape players, cassettes, reel-to-reel recorders, crates filled with music…even the refrigerator. You would open the refrigerator and there would be a milk crate in there filled with music. And Sun Ra is in the middle of all this confusion.

So that's how all it started.

Tip's -- This sort of far out image he portrayed, with the costumes and the dance were part of his act, but he was a brilliant musician…What did you learn from him and how are you still applying those lessons today?

Michael Ray -- He use to believe that people come to not only hear you, but to see you. You just can't be sitting around holding your horn when you are not playing. Most jazz groups, they play a while, somebody takes a solo and then puts the horn down. So we were always doing stuff during the song. Sometimes I would stand on my head. It was circus-type stuff. He was definitely into performance art. He called it a "Cosmo-Drama." He was always trying to give the people a show. It was rewarding, because no matter who was playing the festival, we would always blow them away. It was incredible to hear 10,000 people chanting "Ra, Ra, Ra, Ra…" after we were finished performing. When that would happen he would always have this look on his face, like he was a sage and a little kid at the same time. He had a way of picking and choosing what to play for an audience that was amazing. He showed me that and I pride myself on that. You feel the vibration from the audience and you know what to play.

We did one gig in Germany where they were drinking these steins of beer and trying to out-belch each other and see how far they could spit. They made Ella (Fitzgerald) cry. Sun Ra stopped the gig and told them: "When I walk the streets of Heaven, the angels acknowledge me. And when I walk the streets of hell, the sub-creatures bow down to me. You people are lower than the sub-creatures that exist on this planet. He got a standing ovation.

Tip's -- He had his share of success stories, but why do you think Sun Ra failed to gain broad acceptance from his peers and the public?

Michael Ray -- He always wanted to play the low profile because people were always stealing his stuff. It got to the point where he would play something for them to steal. Some of the most beautiful music I ever heard we played in rehearsal and never played before a crowd. It was unbelievable.

Tip's -- He was bitter about this toward the end of his life, particularly in the mid-to-late 1980s when he complained that there was a conspiracy against him, particularly in Philadelphia, where he was located at the time. Was there any base to these claims?

Michael Ray -- I believe so. A lot of times in this country you have to die to be accepted. He never thought about dying at all. There would be a festival in Philly and we would be playing, but they would omit his name. We would go to Europe and play and pack amphitheaters, but come back to Philly and he couldn't get a job.

Tip's -- He made close to 200 albums, many on his own label. I heard there were some unusual aspects regarding the pressing of these records. Tell us about that.

Michael Ray -- He was one of the first people to start his own record label - Saturn Records. He had this guy, Alton Abraham, distributing his records in Chicago and somehow things got misconstrued and Abraham was taking most of the money. There were times in Philly where we wouldn't have any money. Sun Ra, he would press us a record and take it down to Evidence Records where Jerry Gordon would sell it. Jerry would sell out and say, Sun Ra, it sold out, can I get some more? He would go down and say, that stuff is passé, this is the new stuff, this is what we are really into now. We would go to rehearsal and he would be there with his magic markers, coloring album covers. He did everything. He was Sun Ra. He pressed the albums, did the designs on the covers, made the costumes, wrote the music….

Tip's -- In the very late 1980s and early 1990's he gained some acceptance from the alternative rock movement, which began to claim him as an influence. It seems such an odd marriage. How did that come about, and where there other contemporary musical genres influenced by him?

Michael Ray -- One cat, John Cage [an avant-garde composer], they were good friends. Then groups like Phish and Sonic Youth, NRBQ, they were basically just starting this jam band scene. Then we were supposed to play some festivals with the Grateful Dead, but that never got off the ground. A lot of the rock musicians were looking for something that was way out…something different. Sun Ra was right there.

Tip's -- John Cage has his own reputation of being "out there." Was Sun Ra influenced by Cage, or the other way around?

Michael Ray -- I think Cage was influenced by Sun Ra. We did a show with him. You see, Cage has this deliverance, then he might have five minutes of silence and he would just stand there. People would get mad and throw stuff at him. Sun Ra would say that silence is music, too. You have to leave space in the music. It's like "Space is the Place."

Tip's -- What was it like for you during your years with Sun Ra and the Arkestra? He was constantly working and you guys were on-call 24 hours a day. I understand it was a lot of hand-to-mouth living, but very fulfilling, nonetheless. I also heard that he didn't allow his musicians to use booze, drugs, or have women.

Michael Ray -- Right. [big smile] It was very difficult. But by the time you got through rehearsing, you would be so tired; you just didn't have a social life. Sun Ra used to get up with the sun. We used to rehearse 12-15 hours a day. We would rehearse every day. We lived like monks. Before you know it, your chops were really strong.

Once, when we were doing Saturday Night Live, during the dress rehearsal, I used to do all these Egyptian Hieroglyphic postures. I was doing this pretzel and tore a tendon in my knee and I was supposed to go out the next day with Teddy Pendergrast for his world tour. So I had to come back to Philly and Sun Ra took care of me, staying at the house. I had this big brace on my knee. He was staying on the first floor and I was staying on the third floor and Jackson was staying on the second floor. Sun Ra had this intercom. At 4 in the morning I heard "Michael… Jackson... Michael… Jackson." Well, Jackson is asleep in his room and so I get up and go downstairs. I say: "What is it Sonny?" He says: "Michael, we have a visitor." I open the door and there is nobody there. He says: "No, there is a fly in here." He says, "Well, you better call Fred." So I called the other trumpet player - Fred. So Fred came over and we started rehearsing. Then Jackson got up and came down and said: "Man, I had a dream about Michael Jackson! [laughs]"

So we start rehearsing and then he might put on this big pot of "Moon Stew," which was like a vegetable stew with okra in it. We would be rehearsing for hours, then he would fall asleep at his keyboard and we would try to sneak out the room. But he would wake up and say "Try it again…try it again."

We would rehearse for so many hours, it was really tough. You were really too tired to do anything. That was one of the things I use to try to avoid. But now that he is gone, it is one of the things I miss the most. It was a blessing. And you learned to perfect your art.

Tip's -- It was great training for you, was it not?

Michael Ray -- Oh yeah. Now, I call a rehearsal and I might get them to rehearse three hours. That is doing good. And in New Orleans, if you call rehearsal for 1 o'clock, you might have them show up at 2:30. That is acceptable. Then they might get there late and have to leave early for another rehearsal.

Tip's -- Sun Ra called you his "Intergalactic Tone Research Scientist." What did that mean?

Michael Ray -- You have to understand the relationship with tones as they relate to the cosmos. There is something called the cosmic octave. For example, each tone is a frequency. It's like A, which people tune up to, vibrates at 440 cycles a second. But colors are also vibrations. So to understand the correlation between color and tone, that is a lot of information to take in. It is actually physics. Sun Ra had a great understanding of how music effects a person's vibrations and how it affects his psyche. So he said you had to understand these tones and put them together.

I tried to buck him at first, a little. He said, just try my way. He said: "You see that apple over there…play that apple." So I thought: the apple is red, that is one vibration, and it is 360 degrees around, so you have to play notes all around. It was not microtonal, but there are so many different degrees of one note, it might all depend on how you hold your pinky when you play. You could hold it like that [acting it out], or like that, or like that…it is going to have a different sound for each. And you have to call upon all those sounds at any given moment. That is what he meant by me being a Tone Research Scientist, because you have to be the eternal student, because sounds keep changing.

Tip's -- How were you affected by Sun Ra's death in 1993?

Michael Ray -- Deeply. We had just finished playing with the Paris Symphony and the band was really swinging. We came back to America and he had his first stroke. He had all these homemade remedies for his first stroke. The next stroke, his whole left side as gone. It really slowed him down. He went to recuperate at his sister's house in Birmingham [Alabama] and got pneumonia on the train down there. He died soon after that.

Tip's -- How long did you live in Sun Ra's house?

Michael Ray -- I still have a spot there. I don't go back there enough though. But when I go back, it is just like he never left. His spirit is still there. Sometimes you can actually hear him. He was always omnipresent.

Tip's -- Let's change the subject a bit. You have played with Kool and The Gang since their heyday, what has that experience been like?

Michael Ray -- It was very satisfying. One good thing was we used to get paid even when we were off. We were all on salary. We went all over the world and that was fun, but we basically had to play all the same songs. When you have a string of hits, you have to play the hits, pretty much the way they were written. It was not real challenging.

Tip's -- You worked on 7 platinum/gold records and 7 Top 10 hits listed as a singer, dancer, trumpet player and writer. Which songs did you play a significant role on?

Michael Ray -- Looking at my BMI statement that came yesterday, I guess it was "Let's Go Dancing." But the way we used to work is, we would come into the studio with an idea and lay that little part down and keep stacking things on it, so we all had a hand in the songs.

Tip's -- You also played with Phish live and on two of their Elektra recordings. They were a bit of a phenomenon. How did you fit in there? Was it an enjoyable experience?

Michael Ray -- That connection started when I was introduced by another cat to Trey [Anastasio] and we started doing some Sun Ra stuff and he was really turned on by it. So we played a gig. Trey is a great spiritual guitar player so every time he had some time off he would come play with me and Cosmic Krewe and when Phish was in town I would play with them.

Trey had this dream of this all-star band that had the guys from Phish, me, John Medeski and a bunch of other people. When we got to the session we said, what do you want to do? He said: "I believe that somewhere in the cosmos there are no words, just music." So he rolled the tape and the first song was like 37 minutes long. He said: "Let's go to the next one." And that turned out to be the "Surrender to the Air" project. When the album came out they decided to have a gig in New York. But it turned out to be the worst review of my career. It was so bad that it is great. It said stuff like Trey's mind was taken over by space aliens from Sun Ra's Arkestra. This is the reason tomatoes are not brought into the theater. Tomatoes are too good for these musicians. They did this and they did that. A lot of people still don't understand these jam bands.

Tip's -- You moved to New Orleans in 1989. Why New Orleans, and how has it worked out for you?

Michael Ray -- I moved down here from Detroit. Sun Ra had played here. So I went back to Detroit and found out the band I was playing with up there fired me. So I came back down. I just fell in love with the city. The more you live here, the more you love this city. So I have stayed here. I have hooked up with some very good people.

Tip's -- Some very prominent musicians in this town have described the music scene here as "world class." Do you agree, and, if so, why? If not, why not?

Michael Ray -- New Orleans is still like a Third World country. It moves so slow. It's a little behind the beat. The vibe is the only thing that saves the music scene here.

Here, you still have what's leftover of the "War of the Moldy Figs," which is traditional musicians against contemporary musicians. There is really no avant-garde scene here. There is a lot lacking here musically, but the vibe is incredible. You have so many clubs here.

Tip's -- In 1993 your Neon-Sound Performance Concept won a regional arts award associated with the National Endowments for the Arts and the Rockefeller and Andy Warhol foundations. That is quite an honor. How did the project and the award transpire?

Michael Ray -- I worked on that with a guy named Jerry Therio, who does neon light designs. The project dealt with color therapy. That is one of my joys, approach music from a different angle. People are ready to have their senses aroused. When you see the whole place pulsating along with the music, it is always well received.

Tip's -- You formed Cosmic Krewe in 1991. Has the band changed much since then?

Michael Ray -- Oh yes indeed. There have been over 35 or 40 people in the band. I also have a Cosmic Krewe up north for when I get gigs up there. That way I have a band already up there. But it's like Sun Ra said, it really is not my band; it's the creator's band. But it is hard to get the kind of musicians I want. You would be surprised at the number of musicians in this town that can't read music. I mean GREAT musicians that can play their ass off. I guess they never got into reading music. Sun Ra use to say, a musician that can't read music is like a writer that can't write.

Tip's -- Cosmic Krewe was named the Best Funk Band by the Big Easy Awards in 1999. Are you a funk band? It seems there is a lot more there, including, and obviously, influences by Sun Ra.

Michael Ray -- I think we are just jazz musicians parading as funk musicians. If you can play jazz, you can play anything. We will play whatever they want. We just did a tribute to Gershwin. That was fun.

Tip's -- You have cut a couple of albums… "Michael Ray and Cosmic Krewe" in 1994 and "Funk if I Know" in 1998. Any upcoming projects?

Michael Ray -- I am working on stuff now. I just have to figure it out. Some of it is funky and some of it is jazzy. It will be mixtures of what I have learned from Sun Ra and Kool and the Gang. We call it jazz-funk of the future.

Tip's -- What is your opinion of our little room…Tipitina's?

Michael Ray -- I like Tipitina's. I have always liked Tipitina's. It's great. The vibe is there. That's what it is all about.